Glasovi iz sveta ATV

[s58ru]

Hi All,

It has been two years since I have uploaded the NBTV encoder and decoder to GitHub, as there has been no interest in this ATV mode to date. It seems we talk a lot about the need to do more with technologies in Ham radio, yet I provide a cutting edge technology in the way of a hybrid transmission system to send TV picture long distance. I would of expected five or six people would of contacted me by now to try it out, but has not happened. There is no outside factor controlling what we can and can not do in the way experimentation as long as we stays with the limits of the Ham band been used (except for the United States). So therefore I have stop development work on this project, as I can be doing other things outside of Ham radio, that are valued. It seems we only have our own culture within ham radio to blame for current state of the hobby, as there was a lot more get up and go back in the 1990's, to try new things.

Grant,
VE3XTV
Živjo vsem,

Minili sta dve leti, odkar sem na GitHub naložil kodirnik in dekoder NBTV, saj do danes ni bilo zanimanja za ta način ATV. Zdi se, da veliko govorimo o potrebi po več storitvah s tehnologijami v radioamaterstvu, vendar jaz ponujam vrhunsko tehnologijo v obliki hibridnega prenosnega sistema za pošiljanje TV-slike na dolge razdalje. Pričakoval bi, da bi me do zdaj kontaktiralo pet ali šest ljudi, da bi jo preizkusili, vendar se to ni zgodilo. Ni zunanjega dejavnika, ki bi nadzoroval, kaj lahko in česa ne moremo početi pri eksperimentiranju, dokler ostajamo v okviru uporabljenega radioamaterskega pasu (razen v Združenih državah Amerike). Zato sem ustavil razvojno delo na tem projektu, saj lahko počnem druge stvari zunaj radioamaterstva, ki so cenjene. Zdi se, da lahko za trenutno stanje tega hobija krivimo le svojo lastno kulturo znotraj radioamaterstva, saj je bilo v devetdesetih letih veliko več ljudi, ki so se želeli vrniti in preizkusiti nove stvari.

Grant,
VE3XTV

[s58ru]

mivonlanthen@bluewin.ch via groups.io <mivonlanthen=bluewin.ch@groups.io>
17:10 (pred 1 uro)
Za DigitalATV

That's a pity that you have stopped your developments about NBTV Grant !
Our entire community is loosing something !

That's to say that I have translated your messages for the french
community on my web site during you were in development. Interest was great.

Personnaly j have made a lot of ATV since the beginning of this technic,
mainly on uhf-shf, from 430 MHz to 24 GHz. Also on 10 meters but only
locally (60 km).

Helas the main part of our ATV community is coming old now, me too hi,
and we are less quick to react to new technics. That's the case with
what you have developped.

For my part, i was waiting the results of you first QSO on short waves
to begin to build something in TX. I am already QRV in reception in
DVB-S and T in any frequency because I have built an universal DATV
recever covering any QRG between 50 kHz to 3.2 GHz, and up with
converters, 5.7, 10 and 24 GHz.

I have not implemented your solution because, as told, I was waiting
your first results. Actually, I have not enough power and antenna to be
able to reach you on 29 MHz. But I can buid something...

Is your decision definitive Grant ?
I hope not.

73 michel hb9afo
www.hb9afo.ch

mivonlanthen@bluewin.ch prek groups.io <mivonlanthen=bluewin.ch@groups.io>
17:10 (pred 1 uro)
Za DigitalATV

Škoda, da ste ustavili svoj razvoj o NBTV Grant!

Vsa naša skupnost nekaj izgublja!

To pomeni, da sem vaša sporočila prevajal za francosko
skupnost na svoji spletni strani med vašim razvojem. Zanimanje je bilo veliko.

Osebno sem od začetka te tehnike naredil veliko ATV,
predvsem na UHF-SHF, od 430 MHz do 24 GHz. Tudi na 10 metrih, vendar le
lokalno (60 km).

Hvala, večina naše ATV skupnosti se zdaj stara, tudi jaz,
in se manj hitro odzivamo na nove tehnike. Tako je tudi s tem,
kar ste razvili.

Kar se mene tiče, sem čakal na rezultate tvoje prve zveze na kratkih valovih,
da bi začel graditi nekaj v oddaji. Jaz že sprejemam v
DVB-S in T na kateri koli frekvenci, ker sem zgradil univerzalni DATV
sprejemnik, ki pokriva kateri koli QRG med 50 kHz in 3,2 GHz ter navzgor s
pretvorniki, 5,7, 10 in 24 GHz.

Nisem implementiral tvoje rešitve, ker sem, kot sem rekel, čakal
tvoje prve rezultate. Pravzaprav nimam dovolj moči in antene, da bi te dosegel
na 29 MHz. Lahko pa nekaj zgradim ...

Je tvoja odločitev dokončna, Grant?
Upam, da ne.

73 michel hb9afo
www.hb9afo.ch

[s58ru]

ZL1WTT via groups.io <zl1wtt1=yahoo.com.au@groups.io>
20:44 (pred 6 minutami)
Za digitalatv@groups.io

Hi Michel,

"Is your decision definitive Grant", No, it all based on the level of interest, I need to find the best use of my time. As I need to rework the NBTV software to work with the recovered sync, for both the video and the sound information. This is a major undertaking to do, it is going to be about six weeks of work, if at the end of this work for there is to be no interested in using this software. In that case how else could I make better use of that time, as I have a number of circuit boards I need to get done and I have some FPGA development work to do as well. So based on the last two years of next to no interest for an ATV DX mode for HF, I have just decided to work on other things.

Grant,
VE3XTV
ZL1WTT prek groups.io <zl1wtt1=yahoo.com.au@groups.io>
20:44 (pred 3 minutami)
Za digitalatv@groups.io

Živjo Michel,

"Je tvoja odločitev dokončna, Grant?" Ne, vse temelji na stopnji zanimanja, zato moram najti najboljšo možno izrabo svojega časa. Ker moram predelati programsko opremo NBTV, da bo delovala z obnovljeno sinhronizacijo, tako za video kot za zvočne informacije. To je velik podvig, ki bo trajal približno šest tednov, če na koncu tega dela ne bo nobenega zanimanja za uporabo te programske opreme. V tem primeru, kako bi drugače lahko bolje izkoristil ta čas, saj moram dokončati več tiskanih vezij in opraviti tudi nekaj razvoja FPGA. Glede na to, da v zadnjih dveh letih skoraj ni bilo zanimanja za ATV DX način za HF, sem se odločil, da bom delal na drugih stvareh.

Grant,
VE3XTV

[s58ru]

Don't worry Grant,

I thing that most of us were waiting on results of your first QSO on
short waves before taking the decision to implement your solution.

Because the main problem in S-W with DVB-S, is to recover the synch
after a QSB or a QRM.

DVB-S works, but only when it's no QSB nor QRM, instead, it takes a lot
of time to recover, especially with low SR, and finally, it's difficult
to see most of the sent images.

Did you compare DVB-S and your solution Grant ?

I have not done tests with DVB-T in short waves because the tX and RX
can't work with low bandpass, only 1 MHz minimum with my Hides
equipment. It's too much for short waves.

If you see that you can do better, i can load your softwares and try
with a local ham. The problem momentally is "who", because in my
region, practically all of my regular correspondents are off. But if i
had the hope to do a fruitful DATV S-W QSO, i can use the Al Capone
method to force some european DATV enthusiast to do tests with me... hi

You know Grant, in translating in french your messages relating your
developments, i have seen a lot of interest. But it' also to tell that
this technic is very complicated for most of standard hams. So they were
reading but unaware to do more. When positive results would be done, i
am sure that all DATV people will implement your solution on their
equipments and do tests with it.

73 michel hb9afo
Ne skrbi, Grant,

mislim, da je večina od nas čakala na rezultate tvoje prve zveze na
kratkih valovih, preden smo se odločili za uporabo tvoje rešitve.

Ker je glavni problem pri S-W z DVB-S obnovitev sinhronizacije
po QSB ali QRM.

DVB-S deluje, vendar le, če ni QSB ali QRM, namesto tega traja veliko
časa, da se obnovi, še posebej pri nizkem SR, in končno je težko
videti večino poslanih slik.

Si primerjal DVB-S in svojo rešitev, Grant?

Nisem delal testov z DVB-T na kratkih valovih, ker oddajnik in sprejemnik
ne moreta delovati z nizko pasovno širino, le minimalno 1 MHz z mojo Hides
opremo. To je preveč za kratke valove.

Če vidiš, da lahko narediš bolje, lahko naložim tvojo programsko opremo in poskusim
z lokalnim radioamaterjem. Trenutno je problem "kdo", ker v moji
regiji praktično vsi moji redni dopisniki ne delajo. Če pa bi upal, da bom opravil uspešno zvezo DATV S-W, bi lahko uporabil metodo Al Caponeja,
da bi prisilil kakšnega evropskega navdušenca nad DATV, da bi z mano opravil teste ... zdravo

Veš, Grant, pri prevajanju tvojih sporočil o tvojem
razvoju v francoščino sem opazil veliko zanimanja. Vendar je treba tudi povedati, da je
ta tehnika za večino standardnih radioamaterjev zelo zapletena. Zato so jo brali, vendar se niso zavedali, da bi lahko naredili več. Ko bodo znani pozitivni rezultati, sem prepričan, da bodo vsi ljudje, ki se ukvarjajo z DATV, vašo rešitev implementirali na svojo
opremo in z njo opravili teste.

73 michel hb9afo

[s58ru]

Hello Grand,

Until a few days ago, I hadn't read or heard anything about your development.
I would love to read more about it—how it works, what hardware is required, etc.
I have been participating in the Veron ATV contests for months; in the last contest, I managed to cover a distance of over 500 km on the 70 cm band.
I would like to achieve the same thing on HF.

Please keep sharing information with the OMs and YLs; there are surely quite a few people interested.

73, Thomas DL5BCA
Živjo Grand,

Do pred nekaj dnevi nisem bral ali slišal ničesar o tvojem razvoju.
Rad bi prebral več o tem – kako deluje, kakšna strojna oprema je potrebna itd.
Že mesece sodelujem na tekmovanjih Veron ATV; na zadnjem tekmovanju mi ​​je uspelo prevoziti razdaljo več kot 500 km na 70 cm pasu.
Enako bi rad dosegel tudi na HF.

Prosim, delite informacije z OM-ji in YL-ji; zagotovo je kar nekaj zainteresiranih.

73, Thomas DL5BCA

[s58ru]

Grant,

What hardware is needed?
I know you have been talking about this for a while.

Could you stop by Wednesday night on zoom or maybe a step by step guide
as to how to make this work?
I have little experience with linux outside of ubuntu that was used for
Art's DATV Express board.

Dave KC3AM
Grant,

Katera strojna oprema je potrebna?
Vem, da o tem govoriš že nekaj časa.

Ali se lahko v sredo zvečer oglasiš na Zoomu ali morda s postopnim vodnikom,
kako to narediti?

Z Linuxom imam malo izkušenj, razen Ubuntuja, ki je bil uporabljen za
Artovo ploščo DATV Express.

Dave KC3AM

[s58ru]

ZL1WTT via groups.io <zl1wtt1=yahoo.com.au@groups.io>
2. avg. 2026, 20:56 (pred 11 urami)
Za digitalatv@groups.io

Hi Andrej,

The issue with DVB-T on HF is the overheads in the transport stream and the amount of error correction required to recover data sent. This why I am using a hybrid approach where I am using analog compression and the processing is done digitally, therefore the data frame sent has no error correction. This is done so 100% of bandwidth is used for the video and audio + sync, where noise reduction encoding is used for improved signal noise performance at the RX end.

The current NBTV system uses 200 RF carriers of OFDM spaced 500 Hz apart for a total bandwidth of 100 kHz, with encoded video, audio and sync information.

"but I have a concern if in my country is even legal transmitting 250 kHz BW on 29 MHz."

We have posted a lot of information on this topic as well. Basically if stay within the ham band limits you are using there is no issue, with exception of the United States. This why I am keeping the NBTV modes I am working on within 100 kHz, to minimize possible issues and for 10M band most of the activity is below 29 MHz anyway.

"Above was mentioned something about ZOOM meetings. Is it possible to attend?"

I have asked Dave KC3AM if is possible setup a Zoom meeting (if possible) to go over how this HF ATV mode works, at a time that will work for the EU time zones.

Grant,
VE3XTV
ZL1WTT prek groups.io <zl1wtt1=yahoo.com.au@groups.io>
ned., 2. avg., 20:56 (pred 11 urami)
Za digitalatv@groups.io

Živjo Andrej,

Težava z DVB-T na HF so dodatni stroški v transportnem toku in količina popravka napak, ki je potrebna za obnovitev poslanih podatkov. Zato uporabljam hibridni pristop, kjer uporabljam analogno stiskanje in obdelava poteka digitalno, zato poslani podatkovni okvir nima popravka napak. To se naredi tako, da se 100 % pasovne širine uporablja za video in zvok + sinhronizacijo, medtem ko se za izboljšanje delovanja šuma signala na koncu RX uporablja kodiranje za zmanjšanje šuma.

Trenutni sistem NBTV uporablja 200 RF nosilcev OFDM, razmaknjenih 500 Hz za skupno pasovno širino 100 kHz, s kodiranimi video, zvočnimi in sinhronizacijskimi informacijami.

"Vendar me skrbi, ali je v moji državi sploh dovoljeno oddajati 250 kHz širokopasovno na 29 MHz."

Tudi o tej temi smo objavili veliko informacij. V bistvu, če ostanete znotraj omejitev radioamaterskega pasu, ki ga uporabljate, ni težav, z izjemo Združenih držav. Zato načine NBTV, na katerih delam, ohranjam znotraj 100 kHz, da bi zmanjšal morebitne težave, in za pas 10M je večina dejavnosti tako ali tako pod 29 MHz.

"Zgoraj je bilo omenjeno nekaj o srečanjih ZOOM. Ali se jih je mogoče udeležiti?"

Davea KC3AM sem vprašal, ali je mogoče organizirati srečanje Zoom (če je mogoče), da bi preučili, kako deluje ta način HF ATV, v času, ki bo ustrezal časovnim pasovom EU.

Grant,
VE3XTV

[s58ru]

ZL1WTT via groups.io <zl1wtt1=yahoo.com.au@groups.io>
Priloge
2. avg. 2026, 20:57 (pred 11 urami)
Za digitalatv@groups.io

Hi All,

Here are the 10m NBTV test file to tryout, there are many bugs, if you can get these files to work that will be first major step out of the way.

Bugs:

I have not found away to write a python 3 code to update UDP ports and IP address, so you will need to match the fixed IP setting for testing until I can fine away do these updates.

You will need to free up working memory for GNU radio, I have provided a bash script to do this, but please check that you have available memory to work with.

This is the current Gambas code that has no Sync, as these updates will take me about 6 weeks of work to do, as stated before.

Executable files are:

NBTV_RX.gambas - NBTV decoder for X11
NBTV_TX.gambas - NBTV decoder for X11
HackRF_RX.py - 10m receiver OFDM
HackRF_TX.py - 10m modulator OFDM
OFDM_NBTV_Loopback.py - Loopback test buggy but works
GNU_Radio.sh - bash script to free up working memory

Now you have the 10m RX and TX files you can tryout this TV mode on the air.

I not update Github as yet with these new file as I would like to some feedback on all of the issues found to make updates.

Here a few images showing The 10m TX, RX and loop back tests.

If there is questions about HF ATV / DATV for 29 MHz, I am planning a possible Zoom meeting to provide information on this topic and to where to go next.

If you are interested in being part of this meeting? can you let us know by replying to reflector.
Giving us an idea of what day will work and possible times, with your time zone so this can be set up.

Dave AH2AR is able to send out the invites once a time has been selected.

Grant,
VE3XTV
Živjo vsem,

Tukaj je 10 milijonov testnih datotek NBTV za preizkus. V njih je veliko hroščev. Če vam uspe spraviti te datoteke v delovanje, bo to prvi večji korak.

Hrošči:

Nisem našel načina, kako napisati kodo v Pythonu 3 za posodobitev vrat UDP in naslova IP, zato boste morali za testiranje uskladiti fiksno nastavitev IP, dokler ne bom lahko izvedel teh posodobitev.

Sprostiti boste morali delovni pomnilnik za GNU radio. Za to sem zagotovil bash skript, vendar preverite, ali imate na voljo pomnilnik za delo.

To je trenutna koda Gambas, ki nima sinhronizacije, saj mi bodo te posodobitve vzele približno 6 tednov dela, kot sem že omenil.

Izvedljive datoteke so:

NBTV_RX.gambas - NBTV dekoder za X11
NBTV_TX.gambas - NBTV dekoder za X11
HackRF_RX.py - 10m sprejemnik OFDM
HackRF_TX.py - 10m modulator OFDM
OFDM_NBTV_Loopback.py - Test povratne zanke je hroščen, vendar deluje
GNU_Radio.sh - bash skript za sprostitev delovnega pomnilnika

Zdaj, ko imate 10m RX in TX datoteke, lahko preizkusite ta TV način v živo.

Githuba še nisem posodobil s temi novimi datotekami, saj bi rad dobil povratne informacije o vseh najdenih težavah, da bi lahko izvedel posodobitve.

Tukaj je nekaj slik, ki prikazujejo 10m TX, RX in teste povratne zanke.

Če imate vprašanja o HF ATV / DATV za 29 MHz, načrtujem morebitno srečanje Zoom, da bi zagotovil informacije o tej temi in kam naprej.

Če vas zanima sodelovanje na tem srečanju, nam lahko to sporočite tako, da odgovorite na reflector.
Dajte nam predstavo o tem, kateri dan bo potekal in možne ure, vključno z vašim časovnim pasom, da se lahko dogovorimo.

Dave AH2AR lahko pošlje vabila, ko je izbran čas.

Grant,
VE3XTV

[s58ru]

Hi Evariste,

I am happy to make the source code available, but Hams been Hams will play around with code and complain that it does not work. This will make bug fixing a lot harder to do, as there could be different versions with different issues.

The other thing is I need to add the sync transmission and recovery into the software, currently the OFDM has no pilot carriers. At the moment there is 192 of them and I plan expand this out to 200. Unlike standard OFDM where the pilot carriers are unmodulated, I am sending two frequencies, one at 125 Hz and the other at 100 Hz and doing a XOR to get 25 Hz. This works out to be 2x the video frame rate, therefore I can send a trigger to the DeMultiplex in away that the data frames are synced up. Both the video and the audio data frames need to be synced up this way to get best possible performance at the RX end under poor signal to noise conditions.

If you can contact me directly, I can get them to you, as there is a number of updates I am currently working on as wall the sync, as long as the software can stay up to date? As stated, I need to free up about six week of time to make all these required changes, and I am now working on other projects. If interest picks up again? I could look at getting back to this project later on this year.

Grant,
VE3XTV
Živjo, Evariste,

Z veseljem bom dal izvorno kodo na voljo, vendar se bodo Hams been Hams igrali s kodo in se pritoževali, da ne deluje. To bo precej otežilo odpravljanje napak, saj bi lahko obstajale različne različice z različnimi težavami.

Druga stvar je, da moram v programsko opremo dodati sinhronizacijski prenos in obnovitev, trenutno OFDM nima pilotnih nosilcev. Trenutno jih je 192 in nameravam to število razširiti na 200. Za razliko od standardnega OFDM, kjer so pilotni nosilci nemodulirani, pošiljam dve frekvenci, eno pri 125 Hz in drugo pri 100 Hz, in z XOR operacijo dobim 25 Hz. To je 2-krat večja hitrost sličic videa, zato lahko pošljem sprožilec DeMultiplexu, da se podatkovni okvirji sinhronizirajo. Tako video kot zvočni podatkovni okvirji morajo biti na ta način sinhronizirani, da se doseže najboljša možna zmogljivost na RX koncu v pogojih slabega razmerja signal-šum.

Če me lahko kontaktirate neposredno, vam jih lahko posredujem, saj trenutno delam na številnih posodobitvah, povezanih s sinhronizacijo, dokler je programska oprema posodobljena. Kot sem že omenil, potrebujem približno šest tednov časa za vse te potrebne spremembe in zdaj delam na drugih projektih. Če se zanimanje spet poveča, bi se lahko pozneje letos vrnil k temu projektu.

Grant,
VE3XTV